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7 comments:
I don't think his critique can stand today. I believe that although sex and violence is so common in the media nowadays, it doesn't lead to a more disorganized society.
In fact, since it's not such a taboo anymore and we can talk about it more easily, I think non-consent acts of sex and violence has gone down. Note that I said non-consent, as perhaps the frequency of sex (don't really know how this works with violence) has gone up, but if both parties are willing, then what's the problem?
However I wouldn't know if let's say, sexual acts where one of the parties is still at a very young age were forced. Maybe since it was acceptable in society back then that both parties would've felt happy. I don't know, I wasn't alive then.
So I can't say whether civilization has made life better or worse, I suppose it has its perks and its down sides. I think the best anyone can do is to somehow manipulate society's standards so that you can happily confirm to them.
I believe that Freud’s critic of civilization holds today. History has shown that while technology changes human beings don’t. People are just as aggressive now as they were five thousand years ago. The concept of the id being muzzled by civilization will always apply as long the human brain itself does not change dramatically in its structure. People are still discontent because they can’t give into their animal wants.
I also believe that Sigmund Freud would think civilization is in a worse state today than it was during his lifetime. However, my initial inclination would have been to say that he would thought things had improved. This is because there is so much sex and violence on television. I thought that since television programs and movies are considered to be works of art, then all the sex and violence would qualify as sublimation. However, once I thought this through a little longer I realized that sublimation through art does not usually involve sex and violence in the actual finished product. Television blatantly depicts characters giving into their id. Ordinary people can almost never do this without suffering internal or external consequences. The id must be kept in check to the same extent today as it did when Freud was writing his books. Besides, most people do not even create television programs, they just watch them. It seems the media today encourages people to listen to their ids. This external influence of the media applies even more pressure to superego which must control the id. Because of this increased conflict between the superego and the id, Freud would say that civilization has gotten worse.
I would say the same thing.
-Danny Bell
I think that Freud would not really think that our society gotten worse. Since when we watch TV, we see sex, violence… all the time. Sex, violence… just became part of our society and it would seem odd not to see it for our generations because we became accustomed to this. So compared to Freud’s time, they did not see and experienced it as we see it and have it today. Some people (women) were afraid during Freud’s time to show their knees and were wearing long dressing and were repressing themselves for example. People were not probably showing off in public their feeling but rather were repressing themselves because society considered it to be not civilized and inappropriate. Also, the women would not dress up as we do now and would not act say the way we act and be that open. I think at those time people were more repress, especially woman because they were considered to be men’s property. Now we live in different time, where woman are more independent and can survive without the men and can have children without help of males. In some ways we are (people) less repressed sexually then before, but nevertheless we are still repressed in other spheres. In terms of sexuality I think people are more open now and do not repress our feeling and we act the way we want and express what we want. I see homosexuals, heterosexuals walking and kissing each other and feeling free to do so. Obviously we limited in some ways and there are some norms by which we limit our sexuality but we are much more open and free then before and express our sexuality considerately more then before. Some people think that our attitude toward sexuality is excessive and that we are allowing ourselves to do more then we suppose to do and others think the other way. Nevertheless, about Freud’s idea about sexuality and repression, I think we are less repressed then before and I think that Freud would not think that with more civilization (like now I consider our society more civilized then before) we are becoming more repressed but rather less repressed in terms of sexuality as the following example demonstrates.
If we look at society today compared to freuds time it can prove his point to the extent where humans ae getting so frustrated by thier sexual and violent tensions (because they arent able to express them properly) that they are going over board in many diffrent ways to show this... of course the media displays a lot more sex and violence- but the question is what made it ok?? do we instinctively all wnat it to be more ok and so it slowly is becoming a reflection of our interests??? is this the reason pronos have become a billion dollar industry??? the amount of overly violent, sexual and agressive acts out there can now be conveniently viewed on tv, in books, magazines, movies and the internet.... is the growing interest in such things as mentioned (and reality tv) because humans love to watch other ppl give into thier ids because they cannot ( as the are restrained by society)?? Wars are still here... still brutal and senseless...... its mind-boggling to watch a documentary on soldiers or war.... we live in the west... do we think of the humdreds of wars, rapes and violent acts being commited every second all over the world... just as i type this?? what about the crime rates.... "the fundamental human right" to own a gun in the United States of America??? It seems like we are still conveniently using violence individually and collectively to get our aims.. WWF? Boxing? Rugby? Wet T-shirt contests?... sports.... it seems lke the world is at its brink of frustration and is tired of holding back its id- time to let it all out??? But then there are human rigts commisions.... the abolition of the death penalty... the taboo of using torture to obtain information.. or arbitrary use of force.... Many people look down at the sex and violence... many celebrate it as "rock and roll".... rebellion. freedom.... Is the end conclusion of societys current condition that our sexual and agressive needs are growing and becoming more obvious but society is getting worse because it is also growinlgy and obviously trying to limit and stop it??? You can go to jail for stealing a chocolate bar.... or bootlegging a movie.....and back to religion.... whether we like it or not....the world is getting more religious.... Islam is growing and spreading at a crazy rate... there are even "holy wars" now... christianity is still prominant and in the west- all around us... civilization is still here to stop our growing instincts- dead in thier tracts....
I would have to agree with danny b, that Freud’s critique would stand today. Humans have not changed and I believe we never will. We are as sexually charged and aggressively pumped as our forefathers and that will never go away. The only thing that changes is our culture. Aristocratic England in the 18 hundreds would swoon at the sight of Lindsay Lohan’s newest music video, yet we have few qualms with setting our pliable youth in front of it, but that’s just our culture. Our instincts, which, when allowed to take over, are very strong. The only thing that truly changes is our superego, which is forced to follow different guidelines based on the society and the culture in which the individual resides but our id wants all the same things. This is expressed through our media, what we find entertaining is mostly things that feed our id, like our graphic gruesome movies and pornography.
Freud believes that humans' primitive drives include sex and violence. We have to repress these desires due to the emergence of violence. This, according to Freud, is bad because we repress our inner desires. In Freud's point of view, I think the world today has improved compared to society a few generations before us. Although we still do repress our desires, we allow them to be reflected through sourcse like television and movies. Unlike generations of our parents or grandparents, sexual and violent desires are totally internalized, and not allowed to be expressed in any way. However, if the world is compared to that before civilization emerged, then for sure Freud will think that it has gone down.
I think Freud’s critics still stands today, but I think that for Freud, our society is getting better than the time he lived. Freud said that our society make our instincts (Eros and Thanatos) repressed hence make us unhappy. I agree that it still stands today, since our instincts are to some extent repressed by being a member of the society; we just can’t live in a society, being totally controlled only by our instincts. But today, it is easier than the time of Freud to show our instinctual drives. There are numerous illustrations of sex and violence on TV and on the Internet, and you can express your desires without being repressed like people in Freud’s time. Sexual modesty which was stronger in Freud’s time (controlled by religion) is half collapsed in our time, at least in advanced nations. So I think Freud would say that our society is actually getting better, because we are more able to liberate our instincts within civilization than the time of Freud.
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